Lightfingerlouie - Spencer W Kimball -
37,975. I started to read it [The Miracle of Forgiveness], and all the old feelings of horror came back – the same feelings I had on my mission, when I read the book, and felt a total sense of despair. Was this really what God is like?
I found the part about the old Apostle, and his encounter with a huge, hairy black man, who, it turned out, had to be Cain. It was incredible that a man in the 20th century would include this stuff in a book.
I read the part about rape, and how a woman is probably better off being killed than allowing her rape to occur. What was Kimball thinking? Would he really wish that sentiment on someone he loved?
At any rate, I think Kimball’s book was one of the worst in the long, sad history of Mormon publishing. I am amazed it’s still available, still in print. I can’t think of a single book which did more to discourage and depress people who, for various reasons, felt they needed hope.
My wife trashed my daughter’s copy of the book after she saw it on the coffee table. lightfingerlouie, board post 31st July 2007 ‘The Last Time I Saw a Copy of The Miracle of Forgiveness’
38,407. Generally when we speak of the Word of Wisdom, we are talking about tea, coffee, tobacco, and liquor, and all of the fringe things even though they might be detrimental are not included in the technical interpretation of the Word of Wisdom. I never drink any of the cola drinks and my personal hope would be that no one would.
However, they are not included in the Word of Wisdom in its technical application. I quote from a letter from the secretary to the First Presidency, ‘But the spirit of the Word of Wisdom would be violated by the drinking or eating of anything that contained a habit-forming drug’. With reference to the cola drinks, the Church has never officially taken any attitude on this at but I personally do not put them in the class as with the tea and coffee because the Lord specifically mentioned them [the hot drinks] ... I might say also that strychnine and sleeping pills and opium and heroin are not mentioned in the Word of Wisdom and yet I would discourage them with all my power. (Mormons & Mormons: Kimball) Spencer W Kimball, viz The Teachings of Spencer W Kimball p202
37,179. I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos, five were darker but equally delightsome. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation. At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl – sixteen – sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents - on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather ... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. (Mormons & Mormons: Book of Mormon & Mormons: Kimball & Racism) Spencer W Kimball, general conference address 1960
37,186. There are more than 60 million people of Lamanite extraction. It is no accident that the Church now prospers among them in Mexico, Central and South America, in the islands of the sea, and among the Indian tribes of North America. (Mormons & Mormons: Book of Mormon & Mormons: Kimball) Spencer W Kimball, Ensign March 1974 ‘No Ordinary Man’
37,011. Homosexual tendencies can be controlled. ‘God made me that way,’ some say, as they rationalize and excuse themselves for their perversions. ‘I can’t help it,’ they add. This is blasphemy. Is man not made in the image of God and does he think God to be ‘that way’? (Mormons & Mormons: Kimble) Spencer W Kimble, The Teachings of Spencer W Kimball
37,307. When I said you must teach your people to overcome their prejudices and accept the Indians, I did not mean that you would encourage intermarriage. I mean that they should be brothers, to worship together and to work together and to play together; but we must discourage intermarriage, not because it is sin. I would like to make this very emphatic. A couple has not committed sin if an Indian boy and a white girl are married, or vice versa. It isn’t a transgression like the transgressions of which many are guilty. But it is not expedient. Marriage statistics and our general experience convince us that marriage is not easy. It is difficult when all factors are favorable. The divorces increase constantly, even where the spouses have the same general background of race, religion, finances, education, and otherwise ...
The inter-race marriage problem is not one of inferiority or superiority.
When one considers marriage, it should be an unselfish thing, but there is not much selflessness when two people of different races plan marriage. They must be thinking selfishly of themselves. They certainly are not considering the problems that will beset each other and that will beset their children ...
We are unanimous, all of the Brethren, in feeling and recommending that Indians marry Indians, and Mexicans marry Mexicans; the Chinese marry Chinese and the Japanese marry Japanese; that the Caucasians marry the Caucasians, and the Arabs marry Arabs. (Mormons & Mormons: Kimble) ibid. pp302-303
The things of God cannot be understood by the spirit of men. It is impossible to always measure and weigh all spiritual things by man’s yardstick of scales. Admittedly, our direct and positive information is limited.
81,486. I have wished the Lord had given us a little more clarity in the matter. But for me, it is enough. The prophets for 133 years of the Church have maintained the position of the prophet of the Restoration that the Negro could not hold the Priesthood nor have the temple ordinances which are preparatory for exaltation. (Mormons & Mormons: Kimble) ibid. 488
37,931. One of the great leaders of Latin America. (Mormons & Mormons: Kimble) Spencer W Kimball, presenting Book of Mormon to August Pinochet, dictator of Chile
37,012. This heinous homosexual sin is of the ages. Many cities and civilizations have gone out of existence because of it. It was present in Israel’s wandering days, tolerated by the Greeks, and found in the baths of corrupt Rome. (Mormons & Mormons: Kimble) Spencer W Kimball, President Kimball Speaks Out on Morality, LDS New Era November 1980 p39
38,147. On the sad character Cain, an interesting story comes to us from Lycurgus A Wilson’s book on the life of David W Patten. From the book I quote an extract from a letter by Abraham O Smoot giving his recollection of David Patten’s account of meeting ‘a very remarkable person’ who had represented himself as being Cain:
‘As I was riding along the road on my mule I suddenly noticed a very strange personage walking beside me ... His head was about even with my shoulders as I sat in my saddle. He wore no clothing, but was covered with hair. His skin was very dark. I asked him where he dwelt and he replied that he had no home, that he was a wanderer in the earth and traveled to and fro. He said he was a very miserable creature, that he had earnestly sought death during his sojourn upon the earth, but that he could not die, and his mission was to destroy the souls of men. About the time he expressed himself thus, I rebuked him in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, and commanded him to go hence, and he immediately departed out of my sight’. (Mormons & Mormons: Kimble) Spencer W Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness pp 127-128 [cf. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein!]
37,864. Also far-reaching is the effect of loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is absolutely no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one’s virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle. (Mormons & Mormons: Kimball) ibid.
37,077. How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries – indiscretions like sex thoughts, sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host. (Mormons & Mormons: Kimball) ibid. p155
37,156. Have large families regardless of social norms. In America and elsewhere in the world, the family limitation program is gaining much strength. Latter-day Saints do not believe in this. We believe in following the admonition of the Lord in having large families and rearing them righteously. We hope that our Latter-day Saints will not trade children for accommodation and luxury. (Mormons & Mormons: Kimball) Spencer W Kimball
37,398. It is an act of extreme selfishness for a married couple to refuse to have children when they are able to do so. When married couples postpone child bearing until after they have satisfied their material goals, the mere passage of time assures that they seriously reduce their potential to participate in furthering our Heavenly Father’s plan for all his spirit children. Faithful Latter Day Saints cannot afford to look upon children as an interference with what the world calls, self-fulfilment. Our covenant with God and the ultimate purpose of life are tied up in these little ones who reach for our time, our love and our sacrifices. (Mormons & Mormons: Kimball) Spencer W Kimball
37,399. I have told tens of thousands of young folks that when they marry they should not wait for children until they have finished their schooling and financial desires ... They should live together normally and let the children come [sic] ...
I know of no scriptures where an authorization is given to young wives to withhold their families and to go to work to put their husbands through school. There are thousands of husbands who have worked their own way through school and have reared families at the same time. (Mormons & Mormons: Kimball) Spencer W Kimball, Marriage is Honorable, Brigham Young University
38,268. If a person hasn’t suffered, he hasn’t repented. (Mormons & Mormons: Kimball) Spencer W Kimball